Did Muhammed copy Judaism for Islam?

[CrapWhisperer]

So I was on this site listening to a bunch of people gripe about Islam, uhhh-gen, when somehow among all the [typical] maliciousness, I was commpelled to respond to a curious comment. One individual felt that the Muslim prophet Muhammed simply copied Judaism. As usual, it's a little more complex than that... This was my reply..


I don't necessarily disagree with this statement. This is not unlike Israelites who adapted Sumerian religion for Judaism. Nothing feels unnatural here. This is the way it works. People accept the adaptation of Darwin's finches as if the only adaptations that are ever able to occur must be physical.. This is not supported in the cumulative evidence of the human record. I'm relieved that Muhammed had the guts to go meditate on it until he had a revelation. This is how it was done for eons in Native American cultures. Perhaps this is why Muslims are able to have the respect for Judaism they do. You would never hear -- in a milion, gazillion, trillion years -- a Muslim speak about Judaism the way many "secular" (Atheist) Jewish people speak about Islam. For them the time before they knew Judaism through Islam are called the Dark Days. Speaking against Judaism is considered equal to speaking aginst Islam, because it is widely expressed and understood, Islam only expands on Judaism. They revere Judaic prophets with the same respect as their own.


While it seems perfectly natural to me for a spiritual seeker to achieve sufficient wisdom through years of fasting and vision quests to warrant his people calling him a prophet, I find it bizarre for any people to cling to the notion that these Middle Eastern shamans are anything more than that.

I think it's pretty clear from the tone that the authors are of helpful intent -- and anything closer to God than I can get on my own, I always think, great; I'll take two. But at the end of the day, I feel closer to God sitting around during the quiet times and pondering the meaning of my place in the universe myself. Sure borrowing their proposals is a great exercise.. so is Rumi's.. so are the Psalms & Proverbs in the NT.. so are many religions.


But maybe losing credibility is part of the natural process too. Particularly when the people only ever discuss the topic in such a superficial, self-beneficial way. Since we all know the notion of God is mystical, and we live in a largely mainly physical world, the only physical fact that can be said to be found (that is undisputed by both sides) is that a physical man, wrote down phyisical laws, granting himself physical rights -- frequently if not exclusively at the expense of other peoples rights in the process.


I feel modern Jews are abusing this kind of unabashed audacity to slide out seemingly unnoticed alongside some [now rendered nearly completely] inappurtenant mystical teachings, and not to the detriment of whom they think it is directed; but to themselves.. I believe God reaches out and touches people. I truly do. But there simply is no logic pretending to attempt to comprehend the visceral kind of diseased mentality that only seems to conflate the God-man theory when it's socioethnically convenient. .


On the one hand you treat the religion with such disdain, despite what you may say, through the brutal inescapable honesty of your behavior; and then on the other, it's almost as if you believe God really did bestow upon Moses all of these wonderful revelations, completely independent of evidence pointing to him, like Muhammed, taking a little cue from a preexisting religion to get the spiritual ball rolling first.


I get being confused. It's the seeming desire to stay confused that's broken. Which is precisely what you are advertising with the ignorant, egocentric racial and ethnic epithets.

That said, I try not to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch and do, even though I really can't treat the more fantastical aspects like anything more than legend, still enjoy the mystical aspects of religion and look forward to praying at the Western Wall and Al-Aqsa later this summer.

I'll let you know if God answers my prayers for these ancient cousins post-haste.

[faceless]

I've a friend who wanted to join 'The Magic Circle', but before he was allowed access he had to show that he'd studied the history of magic and illusions to a pretty deep level. Glasgow University is one of only two universities (as far as I know) in the world which offers a degree in mysticism, so there are books available in the libraries which you won't find in many places.

Anyway, part of his studies was the story behind Moses and his miracles. One was the story of him throwing down a black staff and it turning into a snake - this was, according to what he told me, actually a trick used by a well-known court entertainer of the time. It involved taking a black asp and pinching it at the back of the skull, then running your fingers down its spine... this paralysed the snake, giving it the appearance of a black stick. The shock of throwing it to the ground brought it out of paralysis and it wriggled away.

There were also a story about this same entertainer had been able to stop a river (the parting the Red Sea story) to find a ring that an accomplice had placed there earlier.

Anyway, that's by the by - your first point about how people were accusing Islam of 'stealing' stuff from Judaism isn't really a secret or problem at all as far as I'm aware. The Koran shows respect for all the prophets mentioned and sees them as predecessors to the ultimate interpretation revealed by Mohammed.

And they're all Abrahamic religions after all.

[Colston]

I thought Muhammed had his first revelation whilst on a camel train.... Quran is an interesting and on the whole tolerant book

[CrapWhisperer]

Do you guys like Reza Aslan? His book, 'No God but God' was really good. Right now I'm reading Karen Armstrong's, 'The History of God'.. quite the page turner